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I'm still baffled by the fact that James was shot and killed near the front door, but all of his known guns are accounted for and were not removed from wherever he stores them. If someone rang the bell, he may have gone to the door without a gun, but you'd think he'd at least have had it in the back of his mind that he should maybe be thinking about having one accessible. Then, if he didn't open the door, that tells you he perceived the person at the door to be a threat. So wouldn't he at least be retreating toward his guns when the person kicked the door in? That makes me think the perp just kicked the door in right away and that was the first sign to the family of any trouble at all. But then, why would James go to investigate the noise without grabbing a gun first? #locksmithnottingham

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I'm picturing this: You live in a rural area. Lots of animals and such. You have guns. They make you feel safer, but you have never had to use them on a person. You have never experienced a home invasion. You hear a noise or knock and go to peek outside, expecting a raccoon. Imagine the horror to find a man trying to GET INTO YOUR HOUSE. Your wife and child are in the kitchen. If you go for the gun you are running past them. Instinctively you hold your ground between your family and the invader, screaming at your wife to call 911, grab the gun, get back or whatever. She is slow to respond in her own shock, and instead yells "Huh?" or "Why?" In the meantime the guy starts kicking the door. You scream "What the fuck!? What are you doing?!" Still slow to realize how imminent the danger is, and in shock at the sudden turn of events. You still don't move away, still instinctively standing in front of the door because YOUR CHILD IS NOW RIGHT BEHIND YOU. You tell her to get back, but she isn't comprehending what's in front of her. None of you are. And then it's too late.
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Do you think there was a reason that Mr. Closs was by the front door? I said in my post, it definitely could be that it was just an easy way to get in to surprise them. But also loud and would draw IMMEDIATE attention. Just another example of weird stuff in this case that could totally mean nothing. But it also brings up the question of whether someone knew the perp was at the door before they kicked it in. Which seems likely if Mr. Closs was by the door.
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My first post on here. Have been following since day 1. Not sure if this is allowed but in the early days there was a phone interview with a family member with I beleive it was cbs and it was stated the door was shot in. After that phone interview the family went silent with media until aunts spoke. It was said the LE didn’t put a gag order but asked family not to speak due to integrity of the investigation. Ie(things accidently being leaked LE don’t want leaked because only shooter and LE know) the interview was in the very early days. Someone can correct me if I’m wrong or maybe the family missstated incorrectly. I beleive that interview was posted on this thread way back but have read so much since then. I have for most part only read this thread.


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We don't know what the situation was in that house or what the situation was with their guns. The mother and daughter might have had some familiarity with guns but that doesn't mean they would know what to do in a panic situation. Guns are something that have to be almost an automatic conditioned response for someone to be really comfortable using them in an emergency. That takes many hours at the range. Preferably hundreds of hours of shooting. At least dozens of hours. Most women aren't that interested in them to put in that kind of time with them. Frankly they bore me and I go to the range because my SO drags me there and makes me practice sometimes.
I’m wondering if perp knocked, Jim heard, started walking to the door to see who it was, perp could tell he was coming and shot through the door. Jim was down and the perp kicked the door in to gain entry and shot jim again. This had woken up jayme and her mom, who both ran into the bathroom to hide where there was a door with a lock and with the cell phone. The perp broke thru the door, saw the phone, killed Denise and grabbed jayme. 911 call you can hear only the fear/breathing/screaming/muffled before the perp hung it up and fled with jayme. 

My first post on here. Have been following since day 1. Not sure if this is allowed but in the early days there was a phone interview with a family member with I beleive it was cbs and it was stated the door was shot in. After that phone interview the family went silent with media until aunts spoke. It was said the LE didn’t put a gag order but asked family not to speak due to integrity of the investigation. Ie(things accidently being leaked LE don’t want leaked because only shooter and LE know) the interview was in the very early days. Someone can correct me if I’m wrong or maybe the family missstated incorrectly. I beleive that interview was posted on this thread way back but have read so much since then. I have for most part only read this thread.
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Do you think if he was shot through the door that that is something LE would keep under wraps? Because I think they would have said that, unless they had a reason not to. I definitely agree that the gun shot startled Jayme and Mrs. Closs. Is it known that they both were in the bathroom? Weren’t all the phones plugged in in the kitchen? Or did Mrs. Closs have hers? I know Jaymes was in the kitchen.
What you guys said makes me think someone did knock or ring the doorbell. And when James looked outside he saw someone who appeared not harmful, a woman perhaps? So he opened the door and was then shot by a second perp, a male. Somehow then the door became closed again (James fell against it from the inside? He was shot outside the door and Denise still inside closed it?) That's when the kicking began and the 911 call made. But before the call could be completed the killer gained entry and Denise was also shot, possibly attempting to hide in the bathroom. The phone line was open long enough for 911 to hear a "commotion" and maybe the shots that killed Denise. Jayme must have been right there too and was either ordered or dragged out of the house. Everything was fast, efficient, and planned. More like a military person than a meth head!
If you've been the perpetrator of the juvenile act of kicking down someone's door, shame on you. But seriously, if someone else has kicked in your door, or you know of someone who has a kicked-in door jamb, it's not as bad as it looks. It can be fixed. Typically the striker splits the side of the jamb vertically a few inches, the striker slips out of the striker plate hole and the door swings open. It also lifts the door casing. You can usually fix a kick-in door jamb by gluing it back together.
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We don't know what the situation was in that house or what the situation was with their guns. The mother and daughter might have had some familiarity with guns but that doesn't mean they would know what to do in a panic situation. Guns are something that have to be almost an automatic conditioned response for someone to be really comfortable using them in an emergency. That takes many hours at the range. Preferably hundreds of hours of shooting. At least dozens of hours. Most women aren't that interested in them to put in that kind of time with them. Frankly they bore me and I go to the range because my SO drags me there and makes me practice sometimes.
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Could he have been arguing through the door with someone he never expected would kick the door in? Then the perp just kicked the door in and shot him? That doesn't seem to make sense either. Can you really kick down a front door with one kick? I'd love to hear thoughts on how he could be lying near the front door, close enough for an officer to state that it looked as if he was answering the door when he was shot, without a firearm.

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I was thinking about timing too. But if mr closs heard a kick he certainly would head towards his firearms don’t you think? Or maybe to tell Jayme and Mrs. Closs to hide and then go towards the firearms all which could be done fairly quickly especially with the adrenaline of being scared. If i heard someone kicking at my door I would make sure I was armed before going to investigate. The only reason I can think of that he would head towards the door is if he knew who was there, or was already near the front door trying to get them to leave. Him being shot near the front door with no firearm, no evidence (that has been shared yet at least) that he was trying to get to his guns is very strange.


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We don't know what the situation was in that house or what the situation was with their guns. The mother and daughter might have had some familiarity with guns but that doesn't mean they would know what to do in a panic situation. Guns are something that have to be almost an automatic conditioned response for someone to be really comfortable using them in an emergency. That takes many hours at the range. Preferably hundreds of hours of shooting. At least dozens of hours. Most women aren't that interested in them to put in that kind of time with them. Frankly they bore me and I go to the range because my SO drags me there and makes me practice sometimes.
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I had not really thought about this detail until now. Didn’t think twice about a kicked in door, it doesn’t seem out of place in a crime, just something you kind of read through. However, do we think that the perpetrator kicked in the door for an element of surprise? (I think that is with most cases) Or possibly that they knew the family would not let them in/already tried knocking/ringing the bell and the family went to hide because they knew who the perp was. The only reason I see the perp killing the parents IF this was only about Jayme (which I do not know how I feel about that), is if they could recognize/name him. Most of children that are kidnapped, their parents are left completely fine. Or if they DIDNT know the perp, the perp had a reason to be very angry with the parents. I still do not know what I think fully about this case. I’ve read everything on r/JaymeCloss but would love to hear any and all opinions/theories. This is my first post ever sorry if it rambles on.
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